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tv   FOX Business After the Bell  FOX Business  August 6, 2013 4:00pm-5:01pm EDT

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year-to-date they're down 32%. [closing bell ringing] jcpenney may go the way of famous cleveland department stores that are kaput, liz. david: may we end up with a double-digit loss than a triple digit. double-digit loss is better than triple digits. we're flirts in the triple digits. no telling how it will settle. not a good day for wall street. concern about the fed once again. charles he have vans -- evans, who is a big dove, usually likes money printing that the tapering may be beginning that had the markets down not in a panic selling by any stretch but a significant downward move. all the indices are, biggest hit by russell 2000. small and mid-size stocks down a little over a full percentage point. liz: here is a look at front page headlines, number of job openings in june, this is the jolt survey, hit the highest level since may 2008.
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rose 3.8% to 2.97 million from 2.79 million a year earlier according to the labor department. david: charles evans as we mentioned would not rule out the central bank pulling back in the bond buying program in sent. that is lot earlier than he said before. the markets have begun to digest a world whereas set purchases are finite. liz: the department of justice suing bank of america for allegedly defrauding investors in connection with the sale of more than $850 million worth of residential mortgage-backed securities. the doj says the bank failed to conduct due diligence on any of the mortgage loans. david: also sony has reject ad proposal from activist shareholder daniel lobe to spin off part of its entertainment business after actor director george clooney brassed lobe's plans. sony said holding full ownership of movie and music division was fundamental to the future. liz: the shine coming off gold a
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bit today, falling below $1300 a troy ounce as you see, 122. that decline is the sixth session in a row. gold declined nearly $20, ending the session as you can see, 1282. david: they agreed to pay sec almost $50 million to settle charges that misled investors in a marketing deal that went sour. ubs neither. denying responsibility. a interview with carl icahn comes up on a business "after the bell." liz: yes, david, in the world of activist investing, we should call it agitator investing there is perhaps no bigger name than billionaire carl icahn. investors everywhere want to here what he has to say. we'll be exclusively speaking to carl icahn in just a few moments from everything from his battle
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royale with his future with dell and the battle to defeat michael dell's buyout plan is. we'll drill down on his epic clash of titans with hedge fund heavy weight bill ackman over herbalife and what his exit strategy when it comes to hlf really is? what does he want to do with either of these companies? this is important, david. it is coming up in a few minutes. it is exclusive. you won't want to miss it. it will be the first time since he bought another four million shares of dell. david: a lot of his companies are performing for double digits percentage wise. we have breaking news. let's go to ashley webster. it concerns jcpenney which took it on the chin. came back a little bit. what is the news. >> absolutely, david and liz this has to do with speck lanes that jcpenny's chief financial fer, ken hannah was stepping down. it was rumored. although we don't typically comment on rumor or speculation they say it is appropriate to
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respond in this case. he is not stepping down. he is part of the jcpenney go forward leadership team. the company says that there is absolutely false. as you mentioned, david, the stock taking a hammering hitting a 2007 1/2-year low although coming back a little bit. it has been a tough day for penney's. ken hannah, they say, not going anywhere. so they put out this statement. david: once again, 12.65. you see 13.27. not moving much after-hours. people believe what the company is putting out. 12.56 was the all-time low and it hit that today. let's get action on a whole lot of other stocks. larry shover. we usually see larry at cme. he is in new york today. he sees the market moving higher and he has three ways to make you money. also joining us from the pits of the cme, is michael gerka, spectrum asset management. michael, let's first talk about the fed. fed president charles evans is
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usually talking about printing money being a good thing. today he is saying they may pull back from a little bit. that sent the markets down but i imagine a lot of cm e-traders were glad to hear that. that maybe the economy can with stand out the artificial push from the fed? >> there is a dual nature to that kind of commentary also and most people would look at it not from the market standpoint that things are getting healthier and economy is growing and the fed is stepping back a little. there is major difference between wall street and main street and that dichotomy and you're starting to see that in the payroll number. the feds need to start taking a little more responsibility in their vernacular. that is one i think of the reasons you have that comment today. liz: so we know there will be all kinds of comments that will gyrate the markets, but the real opportunities at the moment what do you see? and as we look at these thing, michael, i would love to know your opinion where the true opportunities are? yesterday jeff flock was standing in a soybean field
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saying these prices are really low. if not commodities is it equities all the way? >> no, i would agree with the commodities front, just because specifically it's been beaten up for way too long, at least in the last couple quarters and in particular it is not just the mark key names of precious metals or gold or pullback we're about to see in oil but it is the grain markets because historically this is the time of year you're seeing that rally and we haven't seen that and it is not necessarily weather-related. i don't think it has anything to do with demand or the supply right now. i think it's a cheap product. if you want to look at commodities that is one way to look at it. the other of course would be equity market as a whole. let's be honest it is rather healthy for upside projections to see somewhat major pullbacks. we're getting that in the market like today. against last week's all-time highs it would be normal to see this kind of profit-taking but we're getting it again as you would expect. david: larry shover, thanks a
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lot for bringing chicago weather new york. you broke up the heat wave. we appreciate what you've done. larry came in on saturday with the cool weather. even when the fed begins to taper and liberals like charles evans who is liberal in his printing policies maybe the fed should print a little less that's something. should even taking that into account, should i be putting more of my fixed income, if i have some over to equities no matter what the fed does. >> on a relative basis you should. i would not be in fixed income at all. relatively speaking you really need to be in the equity market. that is not to say we can't have some type of debacle, relative to fixed income equities are the way to go. david, the best way is to hedge that either with options or with buying the vix. vix is 12 1/2, now, a five-year low. there is no reason why you equity portfolio. vix against an liz: okay. so, larry, shows us the money. where do you see opportunity, whether it is sectors? we'll get to the names in just a moment. where's that chance to make
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money between now and the end of the year? >> i still think it is financials and materials. i thought that all year long and i think as our economy continues to build upon itself, as our budget deficit continues to shrink, it will shrink 450 billion this year. it will propel -- liz: that's a good thing, right. >> it is incredible. we are growing, not great but growing a little bit. it will be very, very good with a backup in yields and financials and materials -- david: let me push back a little on that, larry. the fact is taxes were raised. >> yeah. david: also we had the sequester. so you have a lot more money coming in. >> yeah. david: and a lot less money going out but that may be temporary. we may have, in fact, a lot of people getting out of taxable income as a result of adapting to the new tax rules. we may have problems with the sequester. so that may change. >> it could change very well. i mean we had 200 billion deficit reduction in 2012. 450 billion is projected for this year. you're right. it could be temporary. i guess we need more blue dog democrats and rockefeller
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republicans to get together and realize we need to continue to shrink our deficit. that said, things are going in the right direction. we're growing at 1 1/2%. and it is stunning to think with the restraint we've had with all the taxes and the sequester cuts that we've grown as much as we have. it's a good time for equities as long as you're hedged. liz: michael, as you wrap up and look what is happening in the pits today, tell us what you think about leadership. when it comes to stocks overall, you guys are sitting there watching the flows. you get order calls. you see people are backpedaling get me out of this, get me out of this. what jumps out at you as far as investor behavior lately? >> i think what jumps out to me historically investors learn ad lot in the last 10 years and they will not let this fall ut of bed and think they missed an opportunity. the opportunity here is to start taking profits. i'm not a wild bear here, i'm telling you these are frothy markets regardless if you think the s&p it will be up 30% this year. no one anticipated to see this
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kind of staggering upside. my belief you will start to see the market come off. david: michael, forgive me for interrupting we're all focused on disney and 20th century fox has its numbers. ashery webster you're reporting on that. >> we do, david. parent company of fox business network. since june this company has been operating separately from the newspaper and book publishing business. on eps side coming in a little short as you can see. estimate was 34 cents. actual number was 31 cents. beating a bit on the revenue side. estimate was 7.12 billion. it came in at 7.21 billion. so that's better, cable revenue i see for the quarter, actually up above estimates at 2.95 billion. by the way that revenue number is a 16% increase year-over-year. but missing just a little bit on the earnings but beating on revenue side. david: once again we should emphasize they are the parent company of fox business but this is also the first quarter in
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which they have reported outside of news corp. that is news corp split it in two division divisions. first quarter which tv and film division divisions were separated from newspaper and books. after-hours trading a bit on the upside. they're happy with revenue flows coming particularly cable products which we are one. liz: let me just mention too, as we said, fourth quarter television revenue, $1.1 billion. direct broadcast satellite television revenue, 1.4 billion. film and entertainment, 2.04 billion. i'm going over these, these are where people take one piece of the puzzle and add it to figure out what is missing here. with the stock trending slightly higher from the close. foxa is the ticker symbol. david: larry, let's give you the last question. oil came down a lot today. it is still over $100. are traders expecting it to come below 100 bucks in the weeks comeing? >> yeah, traders are expecting a
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short-term correction. we saw inklings of iran wanting to speak. that threw off everybody and add ad bearish tone to the market. there seems to be more oil going online. that is changing the whole supply story everybody was so worried about all summer long. david: larry shover, wonderful to see you here in new york. it's a nice city, isn't isn't. >> wonderful city. great to be back home. liz: larry shover, good to he sue. david: david: thank you very much, michael from the cme. >> we'll check back with him later. corporate boards and ceos fear him because billionaire carl icahn knows what he wants when it comes to investing willd nail for it. up next a fox business exclusive interview with carl icahn on his two epic battles. taking on michael dell and billionaire investor bill ackman. plus how he says he will let the world know about his next top stock investment. david: can't wait. we're awaiting earnings from media giant disney. will the company deliver. they certainly didn't on the
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lone ranger. will the poor performance hit the bottom line? we'll have breaking numbers from a top analyst on disney coming up. ♪ [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ [ indistinct shouting ] [ male announcer ] time and sales data. split-second stats. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ it's so close to the options floor... [ indistinct shouting, bell dinging ] ...you'll bust your brain box. ♪ all onhinkorswim
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let's head back to adam shapiro. he is on the floor of the new york stock exchange with the very latest. adam. >> david, teen retailers who specialize in clothing for teens took a real lit today. they were led by american eagle outfitters. they hit a new low, down 12% for the day. it was a tough day for them but a whole bunch others aeropostale 2%. gap down 1.6%. look at abercrombie & fitch. talking about having skin in the game with their ad campaigns, you know they have a lost skin. they were down almost a little over 4%. they were one the big losers on the s&p 500. so abercrombie was down as you see about 4%. tough day for clothing retailers. back to school shopping starts now and of course you have the holiday selling season. >> thank you, adam. >> the man at the center of two huge stock battles, one the future of dell and the supplement maker herbalife is about to step up his war efforts. just last week carl icahn purchased another four million shares in dill, bringing his stake to 8.9% of the company.
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just how far will carl icahn take this epic showdown with michael dell, the company's founder, who wants to take it private and what is icahn's endgame with dell? what is next with the billionaire's fight with herbalife and rival bill ackman. joining us now to answer those questions and many more, carl icahn himself. carl, welcome to "after the bell" on fox business. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me, liz. liz: you've been having a very good year, carl? >> yes, pretty good year. we've had a few good ones and a few bad ones but it's been pretty good so far. liz: let me get to dell. the filing show you bought another four million shares just last week. why did you buy more shares? >> we think it is undervalued and, we think that michael is buying it on the cheap. we just think that it's very cheap. frankly it is one of the, one of the worst board actions i've seen in my many years of doing
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this i think that the board wants to give it to michael dell but they said the shareholders would decide. they did decide not to take the deal and that should have been the end of it. yet he keeps coming and coming and coming. i still think we have a good chance but a lot depend whether or not we will have management meeting right after this fourth vote on michael dell's offer. liz: the offers, the meetings, you say you limit your stake to dell under 10%. you have 8.9%. give or take 1% to go. before you hit the ceiling, will you go up to seating? will you buy more dell stock. >> i think it's a bit inaccurate we're not at ceiling now. i think we are. liz: okay. >> for different reasons way my attorneys calculated it i think we're pretty much at the ceiling now. liz: you're done with buying dell shares? >> for now.
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liz: dell and silver lake, take the company private. rules changed. only those voting get counted but shareholder vote is delayed until sent 13th. you filed suit last week to protest the move. what makes you think you would get a ruling in your favor on that? >> there are a few things. it is real complicated. one thing i hope we get a favorable ruling is, you have only 13 months to have a meeting but companies have to put them off more than that. liz: right. >> but not when there's damage done by putting them off. we think there is deaf damage to shareholders. that the shareholders should have the right to vote immediately on these two issues. in other words, the right, they're giving them a right to vote again which -- [inaudible] what the hell they're going to do it on the michael dell offer. it is very difficult for to us win this if there's another gap period. if the iss objected to the gap
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period, you know i think, it's in the hands of -- [inaudible] they will not wait to see what happens a month later at a vote of the annual meeting. >> right. >> so we think it is very important to get it done at the same time and we do think it is very damaging if you don't. so we're hoeful. liz: otherwise arbitragers could jump in and make a movement. >> not jump in. the offer, we want the money sort of immediately. liz: exactly. >> this way they don't want to have to wait a month, yeah. liz: we just put up dell's offer, 13.57. plus a special 13-cent dividend. you offer ad buyout you think it way more than that one thing people say you can't offer, this is on dell's side, passion about the business. why don't you think michael dell should be involved in company? his name is on the door. there are successful second acts. steve jobs triumph taintly returned to apple. michael dell they have he can?
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>> i have nothing personal against michael, ceo, in this case last four yearses havehas done a pretty bad job, with the founder as it grows, the founder decided to take it public. there is supposed to be a vote. supposed to be accountability. the board has not held michael accountable. think is the next chapter. he will not do a good of a job as many. there are many candidates. it is interesting to say i don't have the passion but the real point is, bringing in a ceo that's really good as there are three or four we think are incredibly good to do this but the problem we have is to convince somebody to get, you know, to get into this, we, where it is sort of like a beehive. so if you don't have the annual meeting right after this other vote, shareholders know he they
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have a real choice. we tell them who the new ceo is going to be, it will be difficult for us. liz: wait, you've got four candidates you like. would you present one single name? >> i really can't. and really there's, actually two that we really do like quite a bit. liz: are they from the industry? >> well they're great. we think they both would do exceptionally good job. we've done this before liz. i mean we did it at biogen the stock was -- ceo and founder. the stock is now 240 from 20. we did it -- liz: did i had at chesapeake. you got aubry mcclendon out. stock has done beautifully. >> we did it with motorola where we brought in sanjay raj to run the mobile part, motorola mobility. he did a great job. ceo's are very important. they're very important and i think you could get somebody very good here. liz: we're showing, carl, just so you know, we're showing from
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the on the screen from the time michael dell took over again as ceo and the drop has been about 43%. that is what it is. what do you sayythe to 14,000 or so employees in round rock, texas who are dieing to revive this company, that the pc business, frankly a dinosaur at this point or not, i don't know. what's your plan? to revive that part of the business or server business? what excites you about dell? >> excitement about dell is it very undervalued. that is what we look to do is purchase undervalued companies. pc business is going through secular change. pc business is not over. pcs will be used in enterprise although in a different way. i think enterprises you will have a keyboard. you will have a mouse. you will have a screen but it will be a pc. you're going to have service. in back office somewhere. but dell is very important. dell is really a distributor in the pc business and i think they're very fortunate that
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microsoft and intel and companies like that and that is not going away. and actually dell makes over 3 billion a year. this last quarter i think earnings were manipulated. they went into a price war and then go out and scare everybody. so i think the pc business is going to be a very, is still a very, very profitable business. i mean look, told us motorola was through and look what happened. they can keep saying this and saying it but, it's not the fact. so i do think that with the right, with the right mix of, first who is at the helm you could make this a great business. that's the pc business. there is also enterprise software. dell has invested and i think rightly a $15 billion over the last three or four years that has not really come to fruition yet what is called enterprise software and service and what have you, and that business is going to boom. the cloud, everybody understands that. dell could be at the forefront
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of that. dell could make some of that equipment cheaper than the competitors. so i think it's a great business. however -- liz: what kind of computer do you use, carl? what is in front of you right now? a laptop, tablet, who makes isn't. >> right now i actually, i'm the worst guy to ask that. i'm sitting out, in my house, on vacation actually. liz: what is it? ibm thinkpad? >> yeah, i don't, look, i personally am old school. i don't use a lost computers but everybody i have does, so they have all the instruments that i do and ipad i use. but -- liz: do you tweet on your ipad? you've been tweeting a lot on the about michael dell. >> we do tweet. my daughter actually runs my tweet business for me but i do. we tweet quite a bit and -- liz: let me put up two tweets that you wrote specifically about michael dell because, you say you have nothing against him but these are pretty harsh. you say they're not personal. they're business but here's one.
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of all his scare tactics dell has finally come up with the best one. he will stay as ceo if we don't accept his offer. >> yes. liz: here's another one. all would be swell at dell if michael and the board bid farewell. michael dell said whether he wins or loses he will remain part of the company but if you win will that statement hold up? >> no, it won't. if we win, again it is not a personal thing. if we win, michael dell will not be there. you know, that look -- liz: you'll ask him to leave? paint over his parking space? >> hey look, i made a great deal of money, great deal of money replacing ceos that shouldn't be there. and that's one of the troubles in america in corporations today. you have a lot of ceos that boards do not hold accountable. they shouldn't be there. they're not bad people. they just, like having a football player that shouldn't be on the football team anymore. liz: okay. >> that's what you have to have here. hey, look, if i don't get it,
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i've done, i think i've done a good job for shareholders because we at least got the price somewhat. did better than the board. they kept saying wouldn't get it up. look they're up $800 million. so we have accomplished something but if we get it, i think we'll be accomplishing a lot more for those shareholders that wish to remain. liz: well, you've done a lot for shareholders of herbalife. you've got a 16.5% stake there. carl, there is word on the street you would even consider a tender offer, outright buying the whole company. are you considering buying herbalife? >> i can't comment on that. that, you know, liz, there is no way. liz: i can ask. >> you can ask all you want but you can't get a comment for me. liz: bill ackman who, in december took a huge short position in the stock has watched as you have, as the stock has risen 59% year-to-date. his price target is zero. he is shorting it. he says the company is a dog. why do you like it? >> well, first of all, if you
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read ackman's report where he went out and told a room full of people, put out a report, i bothered to read it. i reilly wouldn't have been in herbalife and the thing fell apart. as you know i don't like ackman. i like him now. anybody that makes me 500 million i happen to like. liz: now it is 500 million? >> we're moving it up every time. liz: you made half a billion dollars on this investment? >> that's about right. it's not public, so i don't talk about what we make generally, but yes, we made 500 million. and well, today we did. i think herbalife is a great company. you know, for some reason ackman says, oh, it's bad, it is a moral question. you -- to a lot of people and these people,-[inaudible] if you want to go and sell it, if you're unemployed or not unemployed but source of extra income, what's wrong with that?
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michael dell -- ackman, he has four homes or something like that. these people are living hand to mouth. this is a way they can earn money. the question they say, well they have to buy, if they're a distributor they buy some of the herbalife products. however, they can return those. but they're very rarely returned because even if these people don't make money as distributors, they use the products, or, they give it to friend or sell it on ebay and they make money. liz: you about the issue, carl, is taking a step further. as we were first to report last wednesday, bill ackman believes rampant market manipulation is going on with herbalife because billionaire george soros's fund has taken a position. ackman going to the sec with that complaint. the sec looking into it. he did not mention your name but he says other big money guys are colluding in essence to create a short squeeze. what do you think about -- >> i think it is an absurdity. you know, i respect george soros a great deal. i think he's a great, he has done great things.
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he has great credibility but i frankly don't know him well. i would like to know him better. liz: did you ever talk to soros or anybody else about herbalife? >> no, i did not. i have not at all. i'm not saying that because i would perhaps thinking about it i would have like to talk to him about it. that's not issue. the issue is, soros is great investor. love having him in. i didn't talk to him. ackman, it is absurdity to listen to ackman sayyng these people are ganging up. what the hello hags he done? when he has the position he fill as room with 300 people and badmouths herbalife over and over again and still does. how can he now, almost laughable. now he is talking about a few hedge fund guys meeting to discuss the company? i wasn't at those meetings i have to say. but, it is not, i wed to go to them. it is not that i would have, i might have gone. it is not that, i don't think there is anything wrong with it but the irony ackman is saying it. that is what is really strange.
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liz: you're saying it's hypocritical? >> i think it is amazing he would do that after he has a meeting with 300 people telling them how bad the company is. now he is mad they're talking about the company in meetings and skiing it. liz: he safes donating any profits he makes to charity. >> yeah, right. to me, look, i said this publicly, having meeting telling people you're short 20 million shares anyway, is a little bit absurd. why would you do that? liz: at what point do you break ackman's back on this one? when does -- >> i want to make something clear. i really have said publicly i don't like what he did as far as i was concerned. he is one of the few people i really was quite, upset with but this is not what i do. i'm not looking to break any back. i look to make money. liz: what is your exit strategy then on herbalife? >> i believe herbalife's going a lot higher. it has great potential. it make as great deal of money.
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it does, i think, good for people that can't make a living. and it has a good product. i mean, now, i think the stock is still extremely undervalued because look at numbers. just look at numbers and you can see. it has great potential from foreign countries as well as europe. i think in china it just sort of boomed. i think it is just sort of started. and look at the numbers. ackman did that he got the numbers at a very low p-e ratio, even looking at pierce the number is -- peers and number is cheap. i'm not looking to sell the stock at all. liz: look what you're doing lately. you're in your 70s. people in 70s often sitting back hanging out in a rocking chair, hardly you. you're looking ad opponents and battles and fighting. who is more formidable open don't, bill ackman or michael dell as far as the ducks line up here? >> i think they're different. look, i have to tell you this.
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i have met michael dell once i think. i found him to be a personable guy. this is not a personal thing at all with him. ackman i cannot say that about. ackman, i really, you know, feel has done me a bad turn at one point and but -- [inaudible] but frankly, you know, i told, obviously i don't like ackman at all personally. michael dell, i have nothing against. i'm sure maybe he is not going to invite me to his christmas party or whatever but i have, certainly nothing against the guy. it is not a personal thing. and, i found him to be a nice guy when i met him. liz: all the that is happening with dell and all the legal filings an the briefs, you've done them, they're looking at all kind of issues, carl, how would you rate your odds of winning the dell battle? >> you know, i really don't want to do that. it is very important this court
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case, coming up. i don't think a judge appreciates somebody rating whether -- liz: do you like your chances? i would assume because you're fighting him? >> obviously i wouldn't be doing it and spending a lot of money on it if i didn't feel like we have a good chance and i certainly think we do. it is certainly up to the courts. i respect the courts. we have a very respected judge and he is respected guy and we'll see what happens. liz: so you will continue to fight on both these issues? >> both, you mean herbalife? i don't know i'm fighting. we own a lot of stock in it. liz: you don't have to fight making all of that money. great to have you on. carl, we appreciate you being honest with us on all these issues. big news making headlines hire. by the way how can people find out about your next, big, hot stock? really big on twitter lately. >> when we can, we're going to put it on twitter first. if we have something to say. liz: twitter? >> yes. we're going to put it on the twitter. liz: do you have a position you're looking at right now?
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>> i have to say we do, yeah. and, we may put something out on it but -- liz: soon? >> i think relatively soon, yeah. so i think we put it on twitter but obviously below all the news people, you know -- liz: we're on it. >> that are followers. in any event i want to build, think twitter is a good thing. i want to try to build a following up and see if we can't make some change in corporate governance one day. liz: carl, we appreciate you coming on. we're putting up your twitter handle right now. we want to mention to our viewers, we put in calls to bill ackman at pershing and michael dell and his people. they have no comment right now on anything you were about to say, or have said in the past. so we did make an effort. carl, thank you so much. >> okay. thanks for having me, liz. liz: we will continue to follow the story. we should mention he has a publicly-traded company, david. ei -- iep. it is coming out with earnings tomorrow. if you had invested with them in
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2,000, you would have be up 1,000%. david: better than the s&p. there has been some successes. we focused on all could have them. but you go through all of the companies that have just benefited. of course the market has been in a big uptick but his percentages is even better. he is beating the market year after year. very interesting stuff. liz: here it is. icahn enterprises. publicly-traded. we'll work on that. in a moment, sure we'll have much more on what billionaire carl icahn has just said. he said he would absolutely out of michael dell if he wins his own bat well dell the company. he just told fox business in an exclusive interview. so much more about herbalife as well. we'll talk about it. david: also we'll bring you the very latest on disney the earnings are out. what is the future of this company? how do they come back from the loss from the lone ranger? 100 million-dollar loss. we'll talk stratstrategy about
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liz: so you just had a billionaire telling you exclusively what he plans to do with his, you know, his involvement in dell and of course her a life. charlie gasparino is right here -- herbalife. he has been looking at everything because he covers these things. what jumped out at you? >> just the vitriol against michael dell is lot less. he has no personal animus to michael dell. it is clear he has personal an my house herbalife. liz: to bill ackman. >> excuse me, not herbalife. to bill ackman. he is buying shares. the problem with the herbalife stake, based on interview, i think he has thrown the towel in on dell. i think he basically hedged it. it is up to the board. david: we should mention even if he loses, just the stock he bought last week is worth another 4 million. he bought it at 12 something. >> that is his mo.
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that is always, carl icahn used to be referred to somewhat derisively greenmailer. david: jack up the price. >> jack up the price and get out. he would say he is shareholder activist. that is underscoring the real value of the company. he herbalife is different, it is clear that the shots he takes, it is really interesting. he is a real queens guy. you know, i really don't like ackman. i like him now because i make $500 million off this thing. that to me was pure queens in him. i got you. i got you. i kicked you in the you know whats. you screwed me over. we should point out they had a past battle over another stock which we don't have to get into. there is past bad blood between these device. he jumps into this thing. he didn't convince me though he really thinks this is a great company. liz: he wouldn't comment on whether he would make an outright -- >> that was interesting too. he kind of left that alone. it is hard to sort of surmise
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from that whether he is not commenting whether he is going to do something but i can tell you why are the guys from soros in this? and he pointed out he wasn't part of any discussions with soros. woe like to be but he wasn't. why, why are they in it? they think, they got to be thinking he will do a tender. carl icahn to do a tender would i'm sure get financing but the deal would be upwards of 7 billion. liz: 7 billion. >> that is an apraise amount of money. he has a net worth of 14 billion. a lot is in the investment thing, in carl icahn enterprise, whatever it is called, his hedge fund. i thought that was interesting. i think it was interesting, you know why you kind of know the dell deal was mostly about getting some money out of it, and he really doesn't want to own it? he really doesn't understand technology. he doesn't use it. he said i don't use. liz: right. >> my daughter does the tweeting for me. the question does he use protein shakes? you know, i don't know.
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david: but he can read numbers and numbers that came in on herbalife were terrific, particularly growth in places like latin america and asia. 25% growth in latin america. >> remember what he said. the growth was coming from distributors. he just concedes that. he is telling you, what is a pyramid scheme? a pyramid scheme is it simply this. you don't sell enough of the product but get distributor agreements to sell the product. at some point because you can't sell them, the distributors, stream of money get from distributors, you remember they get a fee. david: are you seeing this as a warning -- >> that's the point. i'm dubious from herbalife. i don't know if it's a pyramid scheme, that it's a complete fraud, they do produce products because they have factories. i'm somewhat conversant in health food and how much, how much, protein shakes are you really going to sell? liz: the sec ackman has gone to the sec and and whine, he couldn't wall call us back to
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talk about. >> who is this? liz: bill ackman. >> we should point out that i've had some contact with bill ackman. liz: right. >> he really believes there's, i think there is some case about a stock manipulation. liz: carl called that absurdity. >> i'm just saying that. when you are, he doesn't have to be involved in this but if you are soros, i'm not saying this is stock manipulation but look as little weird. you are soros. sorrow's fund. it wasn't george soros himself. a guy named paul sohn. you hold an idea meeting with other investors. liz: carl said ackman did the same thing, 300 people. shorting. >> 300 people, he did put out a press release with all that. if you're doing that privately, there are rules about that. and you know, you're actually going to, five or six people saying we're thinking of taking a long position. they have a chance to trade on that stock. it's an interesting dynamic. i do know we reported earlier today on the fox business network that the sec is kicking the tires around on that. so it's interesting. listen, i know it was fascinating interview.
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anytime you have someone like him talking about all these subjects got to watch the tv. liz: sounds great. thank you, charlie gas. david: good stuff, charlie. while the interview was going on we got numbers from disney. disney reported. let's get basics from dennis. the stock is trading down after-hours and go to an analyst to figure oot what the long term future is. go ahead, dennis. >> disney coming in with a earnings beat, $1.03 per share excluding special items. compared with $1.01 a year ago. third quarter a year ago was highest earnings for this company. total revenue, small 60 million-dollar miss. 11.58 billion. wall street looking for 11.64. hire's the thing. overall, why isn't down more than half a percent because if you look at their five major business segments they had a beat in the biggest segment, most important one, media and networks. that is their media business was a beat for revenue,
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5.35 billion, higher than wall street was looking for. parks, theme parks with a miss a little tiny below wall street. movie studio comes in with a miss, "iron man 3" this year but last year with the vengers. a little bigger. consumer products with a little surprise bit after miss. interactive comes in with a miss. a miss four out of five segments in revenue. in earnings, three of the five segments had wall street beats. so they're able to earn more money. two with misses on earnings, are two less important segments and -- david: that is enough numbers for now. we have want to get into details with matthew harrigan, one der lick analyst. let's talk about what happened overall with the reporting. the stock is down 50 cents after-hours. do you think it will trade down tomorrow? >> i think it will probably hang where it is right now. this was not a particular remarkable quarter.
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i think the beat was due to affiliate recognition at espn being a little higher than peep thought. that's a timing issue of the those are payments they get from payment and satellite carriers. honestly the studio number was a little better than i thought. dennis pointed out the difference against the ""the avengers"" last year and "iron man 3" this year. doesn't look like they took write-down on 'the lone ranger." think did on accounting costs which is the way movie cot accounting works. david: it was 100 million-dollar loss. what do you think they learned from this? maybe foreign audiences don't like u.s. western anymore. is that one less ton to learn here? -- lesson to learn here? >> that is apparent for a while. 'the lone ranger" went through iteration of a couple studio heads an dangled along. jerry bruckheimer the producer was associated with it. he has a lot of power at disney.
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he is responsible for "pirates of the caribbean." it is politicized of a process. it's a white elephant movie. it did a little better than people expected. probably doesn't translate that well to parks and consumer products. i don't think, we're certainly not see a sequel to ""the lone ranger"." they will much more careful on live action. david: we heard espn was better than we thought. abc is losing market share. all the networks are. abc was off 28%. fox reporting. their numbers are down too but is network television dieing, dennis? >> network television isn't dieing. they need to put on better shows and when they do the ratings go up of the as the dial gone from 3 or 4 channels to a dozen channels to a thousand channels, those existing networks like abc end up being more viable than
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less. ranger," morgan stanley thinks it will be 100 million. not as big as 200 million on the sci-fi big flop, john carter. that hundred million doll lar charge would come in this quarter. david: they have to have one grand stinker every year. we have only time for one more question. franchises, with the exception of "the lone ranger," clearly that is a franchise that is dead and gone, they do, their franchises are extremely, probably priceless more than valuable, are they not, matthew? >> i think they really have fixed the studio at this point albeit at great cost. you have lucas film with "star wars" in there. you have pixar and marvel which is amazing deal for disney. don't forget it is not just recognized at movie studios, it is mid-ing and parks attraction globally. it extraordinarily intellectual property for the company. david: that is for sure. dennis kneale, matthew, thanks
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very much. don't miss dennis kneale's interview with disney chairman, bob iger on markets now in the 12:00 hour. bob iger right here. liz: dennis, that will be the best one. that will be a fascinating interview. detroit ace bankruptcy just last month made it the largest u.s. city to go bust but that will look like nothing if chicago goes under as well? really? so could the the windy city be e next detroit? jeff flock tells us why investors should be concerned. ♪
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liz: the city of chicago may not be far behind detroit which filed the nation's largest bankruptcy last month, especially if the windy city's pension shortfalls continue to grow. david: happening all over the place. jeff flock joining us live from chicago with more. jeff, how does it look? >> i don't want to get carried away here. i don't think the chicago is the next detroit but i'll tell you there is a serious problem with pensions. the governor was battling in court with the state legislature. he cut off their pay until they come up with a fix for the pension problem. there is no question illinois is probably in the worst state among pensions but i don't think
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chicago is the worst city. here are the numbers. illinois, if you look at their pensions, are 43% funded. so less than half. they're about $82 billion short. louisiana, 56% funded. $18 billion short. california has a much bigger short fall. of course they have got more people. they're 77% funded. but among the worst cities? take a look at this. new research from the pew charitable trust which found that new york city on a per household basis, and this is a good way to measure this, how much is each household short when you come down to the pension short fall, actually $14,000 a household. makes new york city in the worst shape of any pensions. philadelphia, 12,000. portland, oregon about 11,000. chicago is fourth on the list. i don't know if it is at the end of its rope yet. pensions a looming, huge problem. the court today, i was surprised, the court said the governor can continue to withold
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salary of legislators until they come up with a fix. david: i love it. other thing about detroit may be different from chicago and detroit. people were leaving detroit en masse. all the public services were just going downhill too, right, quickly. >> tax base here is in much better shape, david, much better shape in chicago. like any company. if you're still making things people want, people will invest in you. liz: indeed. jeff flock, thank you very much. david: good stuff, jeff. appreciate it. liz: coming up neil cavuto, during cav cav, will have billionaire sam zell coming up. david: maybe he will say something about icahn. meanwhile "money" with melissa francis is next. stay tuned. you make a great team.
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melissa: i'm melissa francis and here's what's "money" tonight. mill dollar secrets of the housing market. what should be your next move in real estate? we bring together the entire cast of million dollar listing los angeles and they will give us the inside tips you can't get anywhere else. plus, it's an idea that should go in the genius hall of fame. are you not paying your taxes? wave bye-bye to your drivers license. will this finally get tax cheats to pay up? the new york official leading the crackdown will join us. "who made money today?" this billionaire owns amazon's jeff bezos a nice bottle of champagne. find out who it is

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